Diversity Session

01 November 2006 - A Main Session on Athens,Greece


 Internet Governance Forum 1 November 2006

 Note: The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during the
 The Inaugural Meeting of the IGF, in Athens. Although it is largely accurate,
 in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or
 transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings
 at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

 - Diversity Session -

 >>CHAIRMAN VASSILEV:  Good morning. Ladies and gentlemen, first of all, excuse
 us for the small delay. The first panel was slightly late, and then now we just
 asked all the participants to sit in a certain order. So now we can continue
 with the next panel, which is called "Diversity." And the subtheme is promoting
 multilingualism in local content. First of all, let me introduce all of the
 participants first of all, our moderator, Mr. Yoshinori Imai, from the Japan
 broadcasting corporation, or NHK. I'll started from the other end of the table.
 The first participant is Mr. Andrzej Bartosiewicz from Poland, which is is
 chairman of the IDN group within the study group number 17 of ITU-T. Next to
 him is Mr. Julian Casasbuenas from Colombia, he's the director of Colnodo, a
 member of the Association of Progressive Communication. The next participant is
 Mr. Alex Corenthin, manager of NIC Senegal and president of ISOC Senegal. The
 next participant is Mr.  Patrik Faltstrom from Stockholm, Sweden. He's a
 consulting engineer from Cisco Systems and a member of the Internet Engineering
 Task Force, also a member of the Swedish government I.T. Policy and Strategy
 Group. Next to him is Ms. Divina Frau-Meigs, a professor of media sociology at
 University of Paris 3 in Sorbonne, France. Next to me is Professor Qiheng Hu,
 or Madam Hu, who is chairman of the Internet Society of China. On my left, Mr.
 Nurul Kabir, who is the CEO and founder of Spinnovation Limited. Mr. Keisuke
 Kamimura, from Glocom in Tokyo, Japan. Next to him is Ms. Elizabeth Longworth,
 who is the executive director of the office of the director general of UNESCO.
 Mr. Riyadh Najm from Saudi Arabia, assistant deputy minister, ministry of
 culture and information in Saudi Arabia, and he is also the president of the
 technical committee of the world broadcasting union. And also Mr. Adama
 Samassekou, who is the president of the African Academy of Languages in Bamako
 in Mali. My name is Nikolay Vassilev, I am from Bulgaria, just to the north of
 Greece. I am the Minister of State Administration and Administrative Reform. I
 suggest the following order of participation. First, I'll make a relatively
 short introductory statement. Then I'll give the floor to our moderator. And,
 of course, all the panelists, then all the people from the hall. And, of
 course, I'll reserve my rights as a participant also to make a short speech at
 some point in time. So first of all, to be honest, I was very happy to accept
 the invitation of our host, minister Michalis Liapis, the minister of transport
 and communications for Greece, also an old friend. And the invitation of Greece
 to host this very important event for all of us. This forum is an excellent
 opportunity for people from all over the world, people very deeply involved in
 communications, in I.T, in the development of Internet, and also in government
 policy, as well as from the private and academic sectors, to exchange views and
 opinions, especially considering the very difficult, to some extent
 controversial, topic of our panel. In this session, we will focus on some of
 the key principles for building an open information society. The ability of
 users to use the Internet in their own language, when possible, and with their
 native alphabet, if possible, of course. Also, the other themes are mainly
 openness, access, and security. Let me quote something that all participants
 agreed in Tunisia last year. We agreed to work earnestly towards
 multilingualization of the Internet, and also to support local content
 development, translation and adaptation, digital archives, and diverse forms of
 digital and traditional media. Today, we will discuss many topics in this area.
 In my list, I have at least seven ones, seven topics, but, of course, we'll
 leave this to all the participants. So now let me give the floor to our
 moderator, from Japan, Mr. Yoshinori Imai, from the Japan broadcasting
 corporation. Mr. Moderator.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ladies and gentlemen, today, more
 than one billion people use the Internet. Many of these people cannot read or
 write in English. They use languages which do not come from Latin alphabet.
 Some 90% of 6,000 languages used in the world today are not represented on the
 Internet. People in those countries could be left out in the desert of no
 information and no knowledge, without any means to acquire them. Knowledge and
 information are basic elements of well-being, social transformation, human
 development, and democracy. A key element of promoting multilingualism on the
 Internet is creating the ability of information in local languages. Building
 the capacity of both individuals and institutions in creating local content is
 the must. In discussing this, let us keep these things in mind:  Inclusion of
 the rest of the five billion people into the global community of the Internet
 for development. The domain names are also the topic today. They cannot display
 characters not contained in ASCII. To develop Internationalized Domain Names,
 or IDNs, while preserve the security and stability of the domain name system is
 the challenge. The challenge includes difficult technological and policy
 choices. Those are the areas we will steer through today in this session. To
 discuss the topic today, we will have a slightly structured interchange between
 the panelists here, and we would like to encourage all the audience here to
 take part in the discussion. The format is already laid out by my two
 predecessors, who made the first two sessions very, very successful. I will
 basically follow the style. But part of my brain should be devoted to the
 transition between Japanese and English. And please bear with my Japanese
 so-called little white way of running the session. As I from time to time call
 upon your participation from the audience, but will not be able to call on
 everyone, so please look around you and find volunteers if you have your
 opinion and comments to address. They will come to you. And please hand them
 one of -- hand one of them your business card with the theme of your question
 or opinion, or you will write a memo with your name and brief -- briefly with
 your comments or questions that I can read. And the people around me, the
 members of the advisory committee, will sort out and give me the questions, and
 then I will ask the panel. And from time to time, we will encourage this kind
 of interchange. And we have also feedback from outside the hall, through the
 Internet, who are connected by webcast, which is already going on. And others
 can send in e-mails to the Web site we prepared for the people from outside.
 And new system is introduced today, which is telephone text and message can be
 sent to us. Two phones for English and French questions have been set up, and
 IGF volunteers will check all messages sent and relay the best of them to the
 moderator while the session is in progress. For English questions, text -- I
 call the numbers -- plus 30-697 680 6260. Repeat, plus 30-697 680 6260. French
 -- I'm sorry, I cannot read well, but I will give you the number in English.
 Plus 30-697 182 and 1854. 30-697 182 1854. Now, what I should do is to start
 the discussion by asking you again, all the panelists, to state your name and
 affiliation, and give us briefly your idea of diversity to start with. So,
 Andrzej, will you start first.

 >>ANDRZEJ BARTOSIEWICZ:  Okay. Just maybe briefly introducing myself and
 putting this in the context of the meeting, I'm .PL registry, and therefore my
 focus is domain name system. If we are talking about diversity, from my
 perspective, Internationalized Domain Names are the key issue so allowing
 non-English-speaking people to create their addresses, names, especially domain
 names, in the future, the whole e-mail addresses, in their languages. I'm
 acting as rapporteur for IDN issues in ITU. And from my perspective, our
 activity within ITU is to facilitate the process. ICANN is playing the key role
 in the standardization and facilitation. Of course, the IETF and other groups.
 And what we are doing, we are focusing not on creating standards. We are
 focusing on facilitating (inaudible), we are focusing on rising awareness about
 the security risk, et cetera. Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you. Next, please.

 >>JULIAN CASASBUENAS:  Thank you very much. I would like to give you my
 viewpoint on the use of the Internet by groups which are more isolated, because
 we do have a lot of experience in Colombia. And I think this -- this culture
 should become known to everyone through the use of new technology. As far as
 culture diversity and inclusion is concerned, in countries like mine, Colombia,
 for example, there's a fear about exchanging the -- exchanging the cultural
 heritage and traditional knowledge of our indigenous groups. And they also try
 to set up mechanisms to protect this information. Fortunately, we do see that
 some progress has been made, and the flow of information is moving more freely.
 This allows local groups to feel able to exchange knowledge and views and feel
 more comfortable about it and also reap the benefits of new technology, which
 means including with free software new content online, and also to facilitate
 the production and dissemination of this information.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you. Please.

 >>ALEX CORENTHIN:  Thank you. I would also be part of the diversity of this
 panel, because I will speak French, which is the third language you will be
 hearing from us. I am from Dakar university, and my main line of interest is
 multilingualism. I also have another hat. And I am the president of ISOC
 Senegal. So technical developments in the field are part of my mandate. Now, in
 Senegal, we have lots of oral languages that don't have an alphabet and use,
 for example, the Roman alphabet or the Arabic alphabet. And it's very difficult
 for them to get their content on the Internet. This is a very strong challenge
 to them. And we have to find a way for all these communities, which have been
 isolated in the past, to have their own voice on the Net. We have to find tools
 which will take into account the linguistic and cultural diversity of these
 people to codify their languages in whichever way possible in order for their
 content to also be present. We also face a second difficulty. It's also having
 a great number of languages within the same region or the same nation. In
 Senegal, we have 13 codified languages. And for us experts, it's obvious that
 it's very hard to give equal value to all of these languages in the same
 region. And access is made more difficult by the fact that we don't have a
 common language which can be used. There's also another point:  Illiteracy.
 Often, in developing countries, we have people who are illiterate or cannot use
 French, for example, which is an international language. So they might be
 illiterate in French, but they know how to write their own language. So they
 can communicate in their language, but not in a foreign tongue, although it's
 used by us. So it's quite difficult for them to transcribe their languages, for
 example, in the Roman alphabet. So we shouldn't think of these people as truly
 illiterate. We should say that they also have to be given an opportunity to
 access and use the Web. They have to be able to find a way of expressing their
 identity on the Internet, their particular identity, because if we give them
 access to the Internet, we also have to give them access in a language they can
 use. Thank you.

 >>PATRIK FALTSTROM:  Good morning. So apart from all the other things I'm
 doing, I'm also a member of the ISOC board of trustees, and also my native
 language is none of the seven that is actually translated to here, but I'll do
 the best I can. So when coming towards the IGF, I heard a lot of talk about
 IDN. And I was a little bit nervous that the IDN would be the only thing people
 would want to talk about in this panel. As the author of the IDN standard or
 one of us who has been working with it, I really wanted to talk about IDN, of
 course, but more importantly, about the other issues that I see important with
 diversity. First of all, I would like to emphasize what Vint Cerf said
 yesterday, and that is that we have to remember that Internationalized Domain
 Names are really identifiers. And, unfortunately, it is the case that no
 language and no script and no person will be happy with the definition of
 identifiers if it is the case they think that they can express words and
 sentences. Everyone will be unhappy. We just have to find a standard that makes
 people as little unhappy as possible. But with that, I will actually leave and
 not talk about IDN anymore today if it's not the case I get explicit questions.
 Instead, I want to move over to the other important thing, that is the ability
 to create content that we already heard so many people talk about today. And
 that has to do with the third very important thing, that is the ability to be
 able to get operating systems, tools and software, translated into the local
 language and expressed in a script which people then can read. And this leads
 to another very important thing, and that is the question of what languages can
 actually be expressed in writing, like we just heard our previous person say.
 And even if you can type things in -- using the Latin script that, for example,
 is used in -- for many African languages, it's still the case that we have many
 illiterate people. So the overall problems, I think, have to do with the
 ability to translate information and actually make people express themselves in
 multiple languages. If we look at Sweden as one example, we have seven official
 languages. And out of those seven, six of them are protected by law. Can you
 guess which one is not protected? That is Swedish. Okay. So, to -- so -- and I
 have no idea why. But the only country which -- where, actually, Sweden is
 protected by law is in Finland. [ Laughter ]

 >>PATRIK FALTSTROM:  But what is more interesting is that one of the protected
 languages in Sweden is actually the sign language that blind people use. And
 it's -- of course, there is a script that you can use with sign language. But
 it's extremely complicated and not really what people want to use. And that
 leads me to some very interesting applications that we have seen that --
 actually, or solutions. One, I think, is Wikipedia, that we now see actually
 exists in, like, 250 languages or -- sorry, 150 languages or something. We will
 see a lot of evolution on Wikipedia. How come we have to write the same article
 multiple times? We can do a lot of work there. We need to do automatic
 translation tools. Second very important application, I think, is YouTube.
 YouTube is a very good example where people, just by clicking, can upload a
 video and also watch videos. You don't have to read and write to use those kind
 of tools. And I think we will see more of that. So with the correct tools and
 with the ability to have some kind of automatic translation tools and local
 support and capacity-building regarding these tools, I think with these tools,
 we will see content being created. And with that, we get more information, and
 information will be exchanged by the people that understand whatever language
 is in use. Thank you.


 >>DIVINA FRAU-MEIGS:  Good morning. I'm Divina Frau-Meigs. In the program, it
 says that I am a professor of media sociology at the university of Sorbonne.
 That's true. But I'm also here because I also represent two civil society
 associations:  The international society for ICT research, I'm it's president,
 and I would like to represent the view of researchers here; and also of the
 educational coalition for higher education and research, which has been a part
 of the civil society family throughout the process. And we've also always
 functioned in three languages, because we would also -- always like to include
 participants from Africa and Latin America. We do a lot of work on education.
 But I've also taken part on all discussions and panels and committees, trying
 to promote cultural diversity. And this is a viewpoint I'd like to put through
 to you today, because we have three basic pillars. First of all, democracy. And
 setting up a culture of -- whereby you can use your own language and that will
 be considered part of your human rights. Secondly, sustainable development to
 take into account all delocalization problems. And also, thirdly, setting up
 equitable relations between all partners, and especially the minority ones. So
 that's my viewpoint and that's how I will focus my participation on this
 discussion. So I'm wearing two hats. And as part of the educational system, our
 coalition has tried to promote educational access, make it open and free. There
 are a lot of technical and linguistic problems to achieve this, because it's
 quite hard to guarantee to transfer it into all languages. But we do need this
 if we want to achieve full content creation and the ability and the capacity
 for all to participate. We want the reality of natural languages to be taken
 into account and to use tools which have been very useful for oral cultures,
 for example, use telephony and also use very technologies on the web. We would
 like to make a suggestion.  We should explore more what goes on with these new
 tools which allow people to use free and natural speech.  And use domain names
 which will offer added value.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  May I just interrupt you, ma'am. The first five, six people
 spoke a little longer than I expected. Would you be a little more concise?  I
 would like to be fair to all of you, but I will give time afterwards to the
 rest of the people. And I would like to ask all of you in the hall to prepare
 your questions, and if you find the attendants around here, please hand them to
 the people around.  And then we've got them here.  And after everybody finishes
 the introduction, we will first come back to you in the hall. Yes, please,

 >>QIHENG HU:  Good morning, everyone.  Actually, I'm not an expert on the use
 of multilingual domain names just because I'm the chairman of CNNIC Steering
 Committee. So I understand certain situation of domain names in Chinese and
 Chinese domain names and international domain names, multilingual domain names.
 I believe that diversity of cultures and languages on the Internet is an issue
 of vital importance. For instance, in my country, there are dozens of ethnic
 groups.  How to maintain their cultural traditions, their languages, their
 customs and practices?  This issue has been the agenda of the country all
 along. Of course, the world of Internet way should also try to preserve
 diversity of cultures and languages.  Internationalized Domain Names cannot
 resolve the issue of diversity entirely.  However, it's part of the efforts,
 and an important part of efforts. Concerning international domain names, I
 think there should be some limits.  In China there are dozens of ethnic groups.
  We cannot, it's not possible to establish domain names in dozens of ethnic
 languages so that every ethnic group can use their own language to access the
 net. Ethnic groups can use Chinese as their language.  If there are too many
 languages, the domain names in many languages can threaten the stability and
 security of the current domain name system. Therefore, in my view, how to
 strike a balance.  Between domain names in many languages and the security and
 stability of the domain name system has to strike a balance.  We must formulate
 a good policy, and such a policy should be the result of common efforts between
 different countries, different nationalities, and Internet circles so that we
 can maintain diversity and also the stability of the net. Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Nurul, please.

 >>NURUL KABIR:  Thank you.  Good morning, everybody.  Thank you for giving me
 the opportunity to share my views here in this global forum. My name is Nurul
 Kabir.  I am from Bangladesh, the country which is actually fight for language.
  You know that during 1952, there was a movement to fight for the language for
 during the Pakistan period in Bangladesh, previously Pakistan.  So people fight
 for language and died many people in 21st February 1952. Eventually, UNESCO
 declared 21st February the model language day. So the rule from Bangladesh is a
 unique example that people would like to share their opinion and their
 information by their own language.  In this technological development and
 Internet society, there is, I found, a divide. How we like to mitigate that
 divide to introduce the local language in Internet?  I would like to speak in
 that areas, and also how to create opportunities to use in a local language in
 the more people in the world, those who are not privileged to use Internet.
 Thank you.

 >>KEISUKE KAMIMURA:  Good morning, my name is Keisuke Kamimura from the center
 of global communications in Tokyo, and I am a researcher for --

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Would you put the microphone a little closer?

 >>KEISUKE KAMIMURA:  Sure.  We are specializing in telecoms and Internet policy
 issues such as competition, regulation and Digital Divide, among others.  And I
 think I am on this panel for two reasons.  For one thing, I am here probably
 for the sake of ethnic and geographic diversity, per se.  Maybe not, because we
 have two Japanese on stage already.  And for another, I am here to bring a
 little bit of linguistics perspective to this discussion this morning. And I
 see we have a number of IDN experts on the panel, but I am somewhat proud of
 being a non-expert on this issue.  And I tend to think that there are lots of
 other issues on top of IDN in ensuring multilingualism on cyberspace.  To me,
 in discussing diversity, language is the most important element, and this is
 not because I have little bit of linguistics background but because it is
 through language we participate in any social, economic, and cultural activity,
 whether off-line or online. So if we are not comfortable and confident with the
 tools we are using, we would be practically excluded from participating in
 Information Society at all.  We want to express ourselves in our own language,
 and cyberspace, it's not about content alone, but also it is about production
 and generation of content as well. Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you.

 >>ELIZABETH LONGWORTH:  Good morning.  My name is Liz Longworth.  I am the
 executive director of the office of the director general of UNESCO.  That's the
 United Nations Organization for Education, Sciences, Culture and Communication.
  We have 191 member states. The moderator asked what does diversity mean to us,
 and so from a UNESCO perspective, first I would like to remind everybody if we
 are talking of Internet Governance, there is an international framework out
 there, and I am referring to two international instruments:  The universal
 declaration on cultural diversity, and there's another one called the
 recommendation on multilingualism and universal access signed by the member
 states of the United Nations. More specifically in terms of what it means,
 diversity means for us, sharing of knowledge goes to the heart of the UNESCO
 mandate.  So when we talk about diversity, we're talking about the ability of
 users and participants on the Internet to express their culture, to reflect
 their culture and their identity.  Diversity has notions of being
 representative.  It's about who we are:  Women, youth, people with
 disabilities, indigenous. It's about being plural, it's about richness, it's
 about being local.  Like biodiversity is to nature, diversity on the Internet
 must reflect, and does reflect, the whole spectrum of human endeavor, both past
 and future. And finally, of course, it reflects our cultures, our experiences,
 our perspectives, our religions, our values.  And most importantly, without
 diversity on the Internet, you cannot have access, you cannot have
 participation.  It's one of the major tools we have to fight intolerance and to
 overcome negative stereotypes. And I think if we can reflect the diversity as
 the key principle of Internet Governance, then we can tap into the richness of
 our human race.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you.

 >>RIYADH NAJM:  Thank you.  Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.  I am Riyadh
 Najm, Assistant Deputy Minister for the Ministry of Culture and Information in
 Saudi Arabia.  I am also the chairman of the Technical Committee for the World
 Broadcasting Union. Now, I am representing here in this panel some of the
 groups that are, you know, to deal with this diversity issue. First, the Arabic
 language, which is one of the issues in the domain names and the ability to
 access the Internet without -- a language that does not have an alphabet that
 are Latin. Also, I am representing the world broadcasting union, and you
 probably know the world broadcasting union is the consortium of all the
 broadcast unions in the world, which covers basically all the geographical
 areas of the world. Among each of these broadcast unions, there are members who
 represent the private sector and who represent the civil society in terms of
 public broadcasters, and who represent government organizations because some of
 the broadcast organizations of the world are government or state owned. The
 world broadcasting union has convened along the side of the WSIS, the first
 session and the second session, world electronic media forum.  There was one in
 2003, and one in 2005. And it is planned to hold a third one in 2007. So when
 we talk now about diversity, I think by having this sort of participation from
 the world broadcasting union, we are really addressing that, the diversity
 issues by having this geographical representation.  We are also having the
 language representation, because basically all the main languages of the world
 are being used in those unions.  And also the cultural and moral values, also
 it is an issue.  And thank you for my colleague from the UNESCO and she really
 defined all the aspects of diversity that we would think about. We really
 should not limit it always to language barrier but all the other aspects that
 can prevent somebody from accessing the Internet freely and transparently. Of
 course the diversity also carries to the handicapped, access to the
 handicapped, the access of the different genders of the society, as well as all
 smaller groups that are not really talked about in this setting.  We have to be
 -- or to have equal, or if not equal, understandable and easy access to the
 Internet. Thank you.

 >>ADAMA SAMASSEKOU:  Good morning.  Good morning.  Good morning (in Russian.)
 good morning (in Spanish and Portuguese). These are the U.N. languages which I
 speak, of course, as well as Greek and my mother tongue. Well, I am Adama
 Samassekou.  I am right now president of the African academy of languages in
 Mali.  So I am an African from Mali.  And I also had the honor of presiding the
 preparatory work for the WSIS in Geneva.  And I believe that our main objective
 today is to promote linguistic diversity, not diversity of human communication.
 I would like to focus on three different pillars today, because when we say
 diversity, for me, to me, it's a philosophical, ethic and political question. 
 It's your world vision which is under question.  A great thinker said that the
 beauty of a carpet lies within the beauty of its colors.  So you can see carpet
 as something uniform or as an explosion of color. The first dimension I would
 like to underline here is linguistic diversity, which is the mother of cultural
 diversity, and linguistic diversity is to human society what biodiversity is to
 nature. I would like to cite Crystal who says it allows species -- biodiversity
 is a way of species to survive in nature.  So this is what linguistic diversity
 does to us. And the most diverse species are the ones which survive best.  So
 for us, it is the -- it's the catalyst which creates the wealth of languages in
 the world. Thousands of languages.  And it shouldn't be thought of as a
 restriction, but as a possibility offered.  In every African country there are
 at least two official languages.  Most times, there are three languages at
 least.  And part of the work of the African academy of languages is to showcase
 this linguistic diversity.  And once again, I have to cite David crystal who
 said that every world vision finds its expression in a language, and every time
 a language dies out, that world vision dies out with it. So the destiny of
 humankind depends on our languages, to a certain degree. Language is the
 linchpin of our collective identity. It's a privileged instrument to know,
 acknowledge, and recognize, to enhance and strengthen relations, to construct
 and build peace and stability. We have to know each other in order to be able
 to recognize each other.  We are in Greece, and from the times of Delphi and
 from Socrates, we have knowledge as importance.  Because in my country we say
 it's good to be able to tell what a flower is, to be able to ride a horse, but
 it's even better to know yourself. So what does diversity mean to us Africans? 
 We need to be able to share knowledge, because this new society leaves people
 isolated, marginalized.  There is a huge part of the world population which are
 voiceless.  I call them voiceless because they are not able to share the
 knowledge which is available.  Because what is Internet?  The Internet is
 access to information, but it's not purely that.  It's also opening up the
 world to people so that people can create knowledge apart from sharing it, not
 just receiving knowledge from without, but also creating it from within. So we
 need to open up participation to other languages, and I think that the Digital
 Divide is not as important as the linguistic divide.  And that's the one we
 should be bridging in order to guarantee the democratic governance of the

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  I have received already some questions.  But before going to
 get those audience's questions, may I just go back to the chairman of this
 session, Minister Vassilev just for a brief comment.

 >>NIKOLAY VASSILEV:  Thank you very much.  Mr. Moderator, Mr. Imai, ladies and
 gentlemen, I would like to use also the opportunity as a participant in the
 panel to express a few thoughts in three different areas. One of them is the
 use of English language.  The second one is some problems with local content. 
 And the third one is the issue of transliteration, which I will explain it's
 actually different from translation. Talking about English, now of course all
 of us are people from very different countries, from all the different
 continents.  People from a different background.  Some of us are native English
 speakers, and some, like me, are not. So what do we do?  There are at least
 several different, at least two opposite approaches to this issue.  The
 approach of some technicians, maybe people who are technology oriented, and
 people who are native English speakers would be the simplistic approach.  They
 would say, well, look, whether we like it or not, English is becoming,
 probably, or not only probably, the most important language in the world.  So
 it's easier for most people to study English and then it will be the easiest
 solution to the problem. The opposite view would be, for example, if local
 politicians, I myself am a politician at the moment, also are non-English
 speakers, would say look, it's true many countries speak different languages,
 but we would like to emphasize our own language to defend our diversity, so we
 would like everybody to use our own language local domain names, local content
 and so on. So it's really difficult to sort out this issue.  If it wasn't so
 difficult, we wouldn't be discussing it so much today and for many years to
 come. So a few thoughts about this. Bulgaria, situated right to the north of
 Greece and expected to become an E.U. member from the first of January next
 years a Slavic country.  Our language belongs to the same language group with
 the Russian language.  We are also a member of the francophonie, but while
 English is now becoming the second most important language in the country. So
 as a policymaker, I would say we will, of course, participate in this global
 debate for the next maybe 100 years. We are very proud of our own alphabet,
 which is the Cyrillic alphabet which is used by probably 200 million -- over
 200 million people in the world. We are also proud of our own language.  We
 have our local content.  But it's also okay for us to study English.  So as a
 ministry, we made the decision this year to train a large number of civil
 servants, 12,000 civil servants from a total number of about 90,000, in English
 and 21,000 people in I.T. this year. Now, these numbers look very large to us. 
 These are only the civil servants I was talking about, not about the whole
 population. Well, next to me is the representative from China, and I have heard
 on television that about 300 million Chinese are studying English at the
 moment.  Also because of the fact that the Olympic games will be held in China,
 and obviously they have to cope somehow with the situation. So maybe the truth
 is somewhere in between.  Maybe the solution for small countries like us is to
 be proud of our own languages, but also to study English and many other
 languages. Now, the second problem, just a very brief remark, local content is
 very important and we are all doing it.  Of course, there are some economies of
 scale in terms of the size of the market. Now, if you are creating local
 content for the UK schools, for example, this content will be able -- will be
 used by the students in the UK, in the U.S., and in many other countries in the
 world. Also, if you are doing something in Mandarin Chinese, then the enormous
 Chinese market is great. Now, yesterday, we had dinner also with the Latvian
 minister of e-government.  She is at the conference.  She might be in this room
 as well.  And their market is about 2 million people, smaller than the
 Bulgarian market, so obviously for them it's more expensive on a per-capita
 basis to develop all the enormous content that's available in the world in
 their own language.  So maybe the solution is they will teach the kids with a
 lot of local content in their own language, but it's very good if some of the
 kids speak other languages -- for example, English, Russian, and so on -- and
 will be able to read the materials in the other languages as well. And the
 third issue, which actually no one, I think, has addressed so far, not at this
 conference and not at other places I have been, is that the problem of the
 so-called transliteration. Now, I am not a scholar.  I am just an economist
 myself, but this should be something like the correct way of spelling certain
 proper names in other languages. Now, we might all think this -- we might take
 this for granted and think this is a very easy issue to solve.  Whoever is an
 English speaker would expect everything to be written with the Latin or Roman
 alphabet, more or less using the 26 English letters, and that's it. But, well,
 the world is more complicated.  So just to explain the issue, I decided to
 divide the languages maybe in several different groups.  Now, what do the
 English and the French and Germans and Spanish do, for example?  The general
 rule is, when spelling proper names, proper names, names of geographical
 locations, for example cities, rivers and so on, and the names of -- proper
 names of people.  So the rule is you spell the name as it is written in the
 original language.  For example, if you open the Financial Times, you will see
 the name of the former Prime Minister Schroder of Germany, for example,
 Chancellor Schroeder, spelled in German.  And if somebody cannot read it very
 properly in German, it's its problem but it is written in German. I think it's
 the same with the French names.  For example, the former president, Francois
 Mitterrand.  Maybe somebody in the U.S. will read it as "Miterand" but that's
 okay, they spell it still in French. Now, there is another group of languages. 
 We are in Greece at the moment.  Now what do we do with the Greek language? 
 Obviously the alphabet is different.  Most people in the world know some of the
 letters in Greek but maybe some know some of the letters in Greek. We in
 neighboring Bulgaria to some extent can know some of the letters but not
 everyone knows all the letters.  So the Greeks historically have sorted out the
 problem.  They have a very good system of transliteration.  If you take the
 name of a Greek person or Greek city, there is almost 100 percent rule how to
 write it with the 26 English letters.  And of course I have seen some mistakes.
 If you drive around the country, occasionally, on rare occasions, you might see
 the same city spelled in two different ways.  Or the name of the same person
 spelled in two different ways.  But this is a small problem because,
 historically, they sorted out this problem. Now, let's take another group of
 languages.  For example, we have people at this panel from Japan and from
 China.  Now, what do they do?  Their problem is even bigger because their
 languages belong to very different language groups from the European languages.
 Now, also, the Japanese language is very different from the Chinese language in
 the following aspect.  To people like us, Japanese sounds quite phonetic,
 quite.  So if you hear a name, even without having been to Japan or without
 speaking Japanese, you will more or less be able to write it down with English
 letters, maybe with some mistakes but maybe not. For example, our moderator,
 Mr. Yoshinori Imai, if you have to spell that name, it will be relatively easy
 for you to do it. Now, for the Chinese, it's, I think -- maybe I am partial
 because I haven't studied Chinese, it's very difficult to write anything
 Chinese. So most people, most of us would have difficulties in pronouncing Mrs
 -- now, let me try, Qiheng Hu?

 >>QIHENG HU:  Right, correct.

 >>CHAIRMAN VASSILEV:  But if she says it, I will not be able to write it down
 myself. Somebody else has to help. Fortunately, the Japanese and the Chinese
 historically have tried to solve this problem, I would say over 90%. The
 Japanese people have no problem writing their name in one unique way, using the
 English alphabet. And the Chinese as well. For example, I've never seen the
 name of the city Shanghai spelled wrongly. It's difficult to spell it, but it's
 always spelled in the same way, because I'm not sure how many years ago, the
 Chinese decided, well, our language is difficult and different, but this is the
 way to transliterate it into the English alphabet. Now comes the last group of
 languages that I wanted to talk about, my -- our language is there, Bulgarian,
 and Russian. We use the Cyrillic alphabet, so we are more or less similar to
 the Greeks. Bulgaria will be a member of the European Union. The Greek language
 was -- the Greek alphabet was the first different alphabet in the E.U., the
 Bulgarian Cyrillic alphabet will be the second different alphabet in the E.U.
 next year. Unfortunately, in our country, scholars, I mean, language
 specialists, linguists, politicians, the media people, haven't been able
 historically to sort out this problem. So you can find all kinds of paradoxes.
 For example, starting with my own name, which is a relatively popular Slavic
 name, it can be Russian as well. My first name is Nikolay. You would expect
 this to be very easy to spell it with the Latin alphabet. But it turns out not
 to be so easy, because we've never had universal rules for that. And in the
 first 30 years of my life, I used to spell my first name in four different
 ways, living in different countries. Now, this is not normal. It should not be
 okay. If you take my wife, Sylvia, Sylvia is a relatively easy, internationally
 recognized name. She can show you three consecutive international passports,
 and her first name, Sylvia, is spelled in three different ways. Now, our
 government this year decided to put an end to this problem. And we decided to
 finally create a set of rules, a final and official set of rules that once and
 for all will sort out the problem. We created the table and certain rules that
 will tell you how to write the names of cities, the names of people. So I think
 this issue should not be forgotten when discussing multilingualism on the
 Internet, because for -- what for some nations seems very easy and obvious, for
 other nations is not obvious. Just to finally illustrate the issue, it's been
 very strange to me, I've been to different E.U. conferences in Brussels, for
 example, and there the E.U. people are very kind, they put the name of each
 country spelled in the original language.  For example, for very difficult
 countries to pronounce, they would spelled (saying name) for Hungary in
 Hungarian. We are the only country with a problem, because they tried to spell
 Bulgaria in Latin, and I was very ashamed, because I did not recognize the name
 of our country. It's not the way we would like to see it spelled in English.
 The record holder is a town, a Bulgarian town, called (saying name), a
 difficult name, which if you browse on the Internet, you will see seven
 different ways of spelling this. So to summarize, Mr. Moderator, this is an
 issue which we have to have in mind when going into the future.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Well, I think these linguistic problems should be reflected
 when we talk about multilingualism in the Internet. And, of course, IDNs and so
 forth. And some of our people on the panel are working on that. I will come
 back to those people in this respect. I have so far four questions before me
 from the audience. Could I call each one of you, and would you give the
 panelists and audience your idea, very briefly, because we spent pretty much
 time for the introduction part. First I would like to invite Raul, please.
 Raise your hand, and microphone. Yes, it's coming.

 >>RAUL ECHEBERRIA:  Thank you. Good morning. Well, it's very interesting to
 discuss this question of multilingualism, I've been looking around and I have
 seen that very few people have been wearing headphones, which means that when
 someone speaks something foreign, which isn't English, in other words, they
 have to put their headphones on to understand. So I think we should practice
 multilingualism a little bit more ourselves. Now, obviously, my language is
 Spanish. Spanish is very widely spoken by millions of people throughout the
 world. It's the second most widely spoken language around the world, following
 Chinese. And there are a lot of Spanish-speakers in the United States. Looking
 at Europe and Brazil, there are about 30 million people who are currently
 studying Spanish there. But Spanish on the Internet is very poorly represented.
 The availability and content in different languages and in my language, in this
 case, is very important from various different points of view. People have been
 talking about access, for example.  As we will see this afternoon, this has a
 huge impact on the cost of access to Internet, depending on what language the
 content is printed in. But it's also important in terms of knowledge and
 development. So (saying name) is looking into the economic value of language at
 the current moment. There's a double impact here on development, not only in
 terms of access to knowledge, but also the economic impact of the use of
 language. So I don't know how we can solve this. We've been discussing these
 issues for many years now, and I don't really understand what the role of the
 public authorities and the governments are on this question of content. There's
 a very interesting example from France. French has become the second language
 in terms of content on the Internet. And that is due to the public policies
 introduced by the French government. So my point is, what sort of public
 policies can we implement so that we can promote the use of different
 languages, in this specific case, as we're talking on the Internet. Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you very much. Next, Hammam, please. Yes.

 >>HAMMAM RIZA:  Thank you, Mr. Moderator. My name is Hammam Riza, from
 Indonesia. And it is very fortunate for me to probably ask question to the
 panel. So the background is, I came from -- originally, from Aceh, which is the
 tsunami-affected regions in Indonesia, where hundreds of my family disappeared
 during the tsunami. And one phenomena that we observe in Indonesia, there is
 only one protected language, which is the official language, out of 742 native
 languages, local languages, in Indonesia. And the question which is having
 brought forward is, what kind of policy or what should the government do in
 order to preserve these languages, especially for the people that suffer from
 the natural disaster? Because news of the funding of the donor countries
 helping the regions is basically -- doing construction, physical reconstruction
 and rehabilitation, but not in terms of linguistics or social development.
 Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you very much. I would like to remind all the
 panelists and the audience at the same time that this session is about the
 Internet, Internet and language. So linguistic problems should be related to
 this, and this should be referred to as the basic infrastructure of the
 discussion today. But we will not discuss those linguistic questions, language
 problems. But it's in the context of the Internet and the information exchange.
 Well, let me go to Vint Cerf, please.

 >>VINT CERF:  Thank you very much, Mr. Moderator. Something that Patrik
 Faltstrom said earlier today triggered a thought. There are people in the world
 who do not have written languages or who are not able to read and write, and
 yet they have equal need for access to information. We also would like to
 preserve on the network their knowledge. I wonder if we could work harder to
 capture oral content on the network and find ways to index it so it could be
 discovered by others who are interested in it. It's a medium which hasn't been
 as fully explored, I think, as it could be. And, by the way, if we learned how
 to do good oral interaction on the network, for people who are blind, this
 would be a great help, because they can't read and write visibly. So just a
 thought for the panel to consider how we can make progress using oral
 interaction and content capture in the context of the Internet.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you very much. The last interjection I would like to
 invite at this time is from H. Shahriari. Where are you? Raise your hand. I
 cannot see. Oh, yeah, to the.

 >>H. SHAHRIARI:  Thank you very much. I think that you can find me as yesterday
 can find my name in automatic writing here. And it is sometimes a problem of
 the name writing, as the chairman, Mr. Chairman, told today. My name is Hamid
 Shahriari, from representative of the delegation of Iran. (Speaking in Persian)
 in Persian and Arabic means "Peace be open him." It's a kind of greeting for
 everybody. Actually, we have 11 million users Internet in Iran now, and we'd
 like to mention that if we want to come to a consensus, first of all, we should
 know each other. And if we want to know each other, there should be some people
 in each culture to know the language of the other culture. If you would like to
 know, you should know the language of that culture. So it's very important for
 us to have the facilities of multilingual culturalism, and multiculturalism.
 And if we want to reach to that aim, it's better for software producing,
 including Microsoft, that support all the languages. Unfortunately, we have
 some exceptions that we cannot have a good communication with such of these
 companies, that we cannot give them information about our languages and they do
 not work hardly on my own languages. So it is good for us. If we want to know
 each other and cooperate with each other and not ban some culture from being
 shared in multilinguistic. We need automatic translation. We need
 transliteration, and we need corpus for all languages to reach to that aim. And
 we'll be happy if we found all cultures to cooperate with each other in this
 aspect. Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you very much. SHAHRIARI-San. I think I'm closer than
 before. I will come back to you to get some questions again afterwards. I have
 already a variety of opinions, a variety of approaches, variety of priorities
 among panelists and audience. And I think I have to do two things at least. One
 thing is about I have to spend more time on the local content issue with
 multilingualism. And another issue I think we have to touch upon is IDNs,
 because it's -- some of the participants think it's an urgent problem. And
 there are, I understand, priorities. But first I would like to spend maybe 20
 minutes, 30 minutes on IDN. And then I will go to local content issues with
 languages. In order to make things move faster, I would like to ask all the
 speakers to make speeches very small, condensed, and concise. And I will first
 go to Patrik. I'm sorry, I don't know -- I know you are not very willing to
 talk about this. But in order to make things go faster, will you please give us
 how far we have come in this IDN and what are being tested and what will be the

 >>PATRIK FALTSTROM:  Thank you, Mr. Moderator. Well, the status of the IDN --
 that's better. The status of the IDN standard is that we have made a decision
 to use the Unicode code set. And that is not something that I see will be
 changed. This implies, of course, that translations from the local character
 set and script that might be used to Unicode create some problems, but to be
 able to use the technical standard, we have to use the Unicode code set.
 Secondly, what has been done is that we do have an encoding of Unicode code set
 in the DNS that works. It is deployed in many countries. IDN is used in many
 countries where the script and where the language, because of that, can handle
 IDNs. But we still do have some scripts and some languages or combination of
 language and scripts where the current standard of IDN is not 100% perfect. And
 we have some issues with the right-to-left scripts. We do have some issues with
 some other -- with, for example, the Hebrew script, they have some certain
 details that I don't have to go into here. But, at the moment, we are doing a
 revised version of the IDN version where we do more careful selection of the
 code points, what characters you can use. We are -- I know that ICANN is
 working very hard. They have a test at the moment going on on how IDN will work
 in the root zone file so we can get top-level domains that are
 internationalized. And I think we are very close to be able to have a result of
 that technical discussion. There are still many policy decisions that have to
 be made regarding internationalized versions of domain names, including tractor
 issues that need to be discussed. But I claim that regarding the technical
 implementation for the World Wide Web, we are done except for maybe some corner
 cases. Microsoft really is Internet Explorer, seven the other week. And that,
 to me, means that all the major browsers used on all operating systems on the
 major operating systems, the Mac, Linux, Windows, do support IDNs in the
 browser. So that is already deployed. That is already working. So -- but -- so
 the only thing that is happening are these, like, sort of problems that,
 unfortunately, are very, very difficult problems for some very large groups.
 And I encourage people that know that they have problems in their local script
 to contact me and to participate in the IETF process where we are hammering out
 those small, last, very few issues. Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Alex, do you have something to say about this IDN?

 >>ALEX CORENTHIN:  I think that what Patrik has just said pretty much reflects
 the path that's been followed. We are trying in Africa to contribute to
 launching an initiative called the Africa Ideal. And that will allow us, with
 the African Academy for Languages, whose President is with us here today, Mr. 
 Samassekou, it will allow us with linguists to see what is linked to
 transcription of our various different languages and those which have already
 been taken care of in Unicode. So there is a lot of work still to do, because
 we have to go beyond the classical taps that exist this far. So in the major
 discussion groups, this is becoming an important issue now. But we don't have a
 critical mass of competence as yet. There are some -- there is a need to
 develop competence and ability in these countries, which will allow us then to
 move faster ahead in deployment of this technology and boost the languages. It
 is, though, a very important issue, because the linguistic and cultural
 features are expressed through certain very clear expressions. This could be a
 way of increasing content, because it will be pushing us towards Internet


 >>DIVINA FRAU-MEIGS:  (No translation). Should I speak in English?

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Is the translation working?

 >>DIVINA FRAU-MEIGS:  I can also speak in Catalan.


 >>:Can you hear the English interpretation now? You can hear it now?

 >>DIVINA FRAU-MEIGS:  From the point of view of the researchers, of course, we
 have followed ICANN's work very closely, and we welcome it from the point of
 view of internationalization. But each time that new difficulties emerge, we
 start moving towards very heavy, cumbersome solutions, with lists of
 characters, more than 50 elements, which are not very easy for the users. On
 the research side, we realize that there's a kind of linguistic bias in certain
 areas. Look back to what was said yesterday with John. That showed that --
 well, there are three types of bias there:  Preexisting ones due to the fact
 that the Internet was developed by millions of English-speaking researchers and
 that English is far and away the dominant language. And there is a technical
 bias with the ASCII and the Punycode being selected to try to solve these
 international problems. But that gives problems for languages with very long
 nouns which are amputated, if you like, from the word go. And then there are
 other emerging biases, as, for example, this question of ownership and the
 proprietary nature of certain names and how ICANN swings in with this. We have
 got problems which go beyond purely technological ones, there are human ones as
 well. And they have to be taken on board. We would be all four systems, which
 would allow nouns being expressed as key words in the native language, because
 that would allow us to shorten things, it would allow for economies of scale.
 And in research, we could use very widely spread apparatus, the telephone, for
 example, for this, which would be very useful for developing countries, Africa
 in particular, where there are largely oral languages and cultures, and it
 would take a long time to transcribe -- to transliterate those in writing. Now,
 we could translate the key words. We wouldn't need a full translation, just
 vocal recognition of words. This comes back to the problem of the oral nature
 which was raised beforehand. And, well, it would involve other minorities that
 we don't say an awful lot about. But they are part and parcel of our diversity.
 And that's minorities of people with a handicap. So it would open up the
 possibility of expanding language semantics and interpretation and would allow
 research through the semantic Web, et cetera. I think that that would have
 repercussions for teaching as well. It would enrich, it would ask -- make us
 have targeted searching, with intuitive words used for users, obviously, having
 to go through search engines now. It doesn't necessarily give us an awful lot
 of information. Look at media pro, which you will find on the Web,
 mediapro.org. Certain people use Google, up to 90%, to look for their favorite
 sites, not to get the information. So there is a lack of competence and info
 competence in terms of what is already on the Internet, the wealth of what is
 already there. Because people can't target it in their own native language. And
 that applies, in particular, to young people and their access to culture.
 Obviously, there's the local economic question as well for non-majority
 languages, one of the problems for local languages is that developing content
 over time is very difficult. And if it can be done through these languages, it
 would be great. So some of us have already discussed this. We've been talking
 about tabling a proposal on the progressive implementation of a domain name
 system with added value. But to achieve that, the multistakeholder community
 would have to kick in. We'd need a multiplayer working group to look into this,
 which would be under the aegis of a nongovernmental organization already
 working alongside the civil society, you'd have the states there and the
 private sector. We could be talking, for example, about UNESCO, just looking
 down the line here, or the ITU. And that working group should look into this
 emerging issue that we've recognized today, the emerging issue of cultural
 diversity, alongside the new tools, what ICANN has developed on the one hand,
 and on the other, tools such as the semantic Web and the different types of
 language, et cetera. I think it's absolutely essential that we should all leave
 from here saying that something will be prepared for Rio. I don't know whether
 that's everyone's opinion here. We've been saying that, you know, it's a bit
 difficult to look forward to the future. But I would hope that by Rio, this
 working group could produce a negotiated report which would reflect the state
 of play, what's happening with the various different options, which would allow
 us to think about having an ongoing situation with the Web as it is now, but
 being aware of the fact that there are new options which need to be taken on
 board as well. I'm nearly finished, I promise you. But it should take a look at
 the state of the art, and also come up with some suggestions, some
 recommendations which could then be discussed in Rio.  Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you. I am very polite Japanese but I again have to ask
 you to limit your statement within a minute, please. And before going back to
 them, would I like to invite one question from the floor. Pavan Duggal, I would
 like to have your intervention or discussion, please.

 >>PAVAN DUGGAL:  Good morning, I am Pavan Duggal, I am the president of cyber
 law Asia and also the president of cyber law India.  We have been working a lot
 on the legal issues concerning Internationalized Domain Names, and I had a
 question for the panel, and I thought I'd like it take the perspectives. We had
 a fantastic session yesterday where the effort was primarily aimed at ensuring
 that there should not be any fragmented Internet.  And while we are working
 towards a globalized, multilingual Internet, the important issue is is how do
 we tackle the crucial and very critical argument concerning sovereignty.  It's
 good to say that Internet model as it happened today will be equally replicated
 in the context of the multilingual domains.  What is of crucial significance is
 do we as IGF have a legal strategy as to how do we counter the argument of
 sovereignty, of sovereign nations.  And also the argument that nations
 themselves are the legitimate heirs and have legitimate claims to linguistic
 distinctiveness as also linguistic heritage.  These are crucial areas, and I
 believe these are areas that will act as black holes as far as Internet law and
 policy are concerned. So the crucial issue is, do we have any strategies ahead?
  And if at all, can we evolve a more inclusive process?  And another thing,
 does technology allow us to bypass the sovereignty argument?  These are some of
 the very complicated issues that I thought I would like to flag along and get
 this distinguished panel to respond to these issues. Thank you, sir.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Kieren, I understand there is an injection from outside the
 hall, a short message.  Before that, I would like to go to Madam Hu.

 >>QIHENG HU:  I would like to point out that concern in the exchange of
 different cultures and nationalities vis-a-vis the need to keep cultural
 heritage.  Just now it was mentioned that 300 million Chinese were learning
 English.  That is true.  That is for the purpose of facilitating communicating
 with the rest of the world.  And my government has been working hard on this. 
 But I have tried to use Latin phonetic system to spell Chinese. This has
 brought us a lot of advantages.  For instance, the world Shanghai is a name
 which is easy to write and no one can make mistake.  But our past experience
 has shown that Chinese still are not very comfortable with using Latin letters
 to spell Chinese.  They still prefer what is not easy to understand for most of
 you here, the idiograms.  Because of that, I think IDN is something we need
 very much.  It is especially helpful for those people who are not very well
 educated because they prefer to use the language they are familiar with to
 express themselves, and find this way of doing things most convenient. We
 cannot avoid this issue, of course.  That is not a mean to facilitate the
 multilingualism and the multiculturism of the Internet.  It cannot solve all
 the problem, that's for sure. Just now it was pointed out by some person that
 there should be automatic translation much that is, indeed, very important. 
 However, IDN is just one step in the process. I believe that as far as a
 national sovereignty is concerned in the process IDN, actually at the stage of
 WSIS, we have come to a very good consensus that a ccTLD should be part of the
 national sovereignty. As for the ccTLD, met with local countants and local
 languages, perhaps in these policy studies, ICANN should address this matter as
 a priority issue as it poses least problems and challenges and should be dealt
 with first. This, I believe, will facilitate our process to globalize IDN. 
 Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you very much. We have some message coming in from
 outside the call.  Kieren, please.

 >>KIEREN McCARTHY:  Yes, there is quite a big discussion going on in the chat
 rooms and also we have text messages coming in and e-mails coming in.  Can the
 panelists give some cases if there are any initiatives to help improve the
 development of content, whether through the government or private sector. 
 Presumably multilingual content.  Michael Nelson says a lot of this discussion
 is ignoring VOIP, which is where Internet users have been communicating a lot
 more in developing countries recently, so can we talk about Skype, Vonage,
 those sorts of issues. RAM Mohan says IDNs themselves are only a small aspect
 of achieving diversity.  And also there is the concern that Allison W. says in
 the chat room there are two users on the Internet, one is the reader, the other
 is the provider.  And the middle person must not be a search engine or
 transliteration engine that isn't consistent or lack of character availability
 on a keyboard.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you very much.  Before going back to the panel, I
 invite two questions that I have already received.  David Wood, yeah, the
 gentleman here.  And I will go to Japanese participant Tsukasa Makino
 afterwards. Will you please be brief.

 >>DAVID WOOD:  Yes, actually, I think you almost answered the questions. I
 wondered if Mr. Faltstrom could actually, though, for the record and for our
 people inside the space give us a timetable for the completion of IDN.  And
 just tell us who is doing what and what he sees as the main barriers to its
 completion. Thank you.

 >>YOSHINORI IMAI:  Thank you.  Tsukasa Makino.

 >>TSUKASA MAKINO:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  My name is Tsukasa Makino from
 Japan, Tokyo and the (saying name) Insuranc